God and Masters Q&A

Automated transcript of the sermon audio, generated with OpenAI Whisper (small.en). It has not been checked against the recording and may contain errors, especially in names and Scripture references.

I only have one more introductory comment, and that is, I just thought that all the talks were perfect in terms of like Jim’s scalpel-like precision addressing whatever topic he is he’s going after, and Jonathan loves the history and bringing that along and Dave’s stories and just not afraid to say whatever comes into his mind, really. I did have written down to say Unfreedom of the Press the name of the book that he kept lifting up with his hand over top of so you couldn’t actually see what book it was, but then somebody else asked at the end. So that was great. And then me, I just say theological things, but I tried to say them more, uh, less excitedly, just, you know, matter of fact, I worked on that.

Also not like I couldn’t make this up. I just got a text message and I thought it was probably one of these people either with a question or tell me my fly was down or something. So I thought I should take it. And it’s a good thing I did because this is while you were talking. Hi, I’m Karen from Mike Bloomberg’s campaign with so much at stake. Americans deserve a Democratic candidate who can beat Donald Trump. Will you support Mike?

Terry got the same text. Anybody else get that text? You got it too. Okay. So awesome. First question. Are you going to vote for Donald Trump in the 2020 presidential election? We actually had a whole night in the summer of 2016, where we met, uh, at, uh, at, at our house, and, uh, we actually had to answer that same question. At that point, I’m not even sure that Trump had the nomination. Yeah. So we also don’t really care about our tax exempt status necessarily. But so we’re talking as what we will vote as individually, not coercing you to vote for in your responsibility. So yeah. So, Dad, do you need to actually, you might as well get it on record.

Is this a question to me? Oh, everybody? Okay, I can lead off. Yeah, when he ran last time, I said there was not even a choice, that he was it. And I was, I only voted for him thinking I would get maybe a somewhat conservative Supreme Court justice. That was it. I was ready to go with that alone and it’s ended up there are over a hundred and eighty I think it’s a hundred and eighty nine now or hundred and eighty five in The federal system that he’s appointed that are conservative coming out of conservative think tanks and That means one in fourteen federal judges have now been appointed with that bent in the system which is just Unbelievable that that could happen in three years The if you Want to look at it? There’s a you get on the website. There’s 389 things that he’s already done as president. He’s the most active president. I have ever seen in my lifetime bar none doing things in a good general direction and It’s unbelievable. I mean it’s just crazy. So that’s my opinion I would say if nothing changes between now and November, yes, I will vote for Donald Trump.

I did not vote for him in 2016. I did not believe him because I’ve had the unfortunate, I guess, duty to listen to politicians most of my life. And rarely do they make good on campaign promises, so I thought somebody with a checkered or at least consistently amoral history could not be relied upon to or trusted to do what he said he was going to do. I actually thought about him as I I have most politicians and I have been, I think shocked is not too strong of a word, to see exactly what percentage of the things he said he would do that he has done, but also other things that I didn’t anticipate. And then there is way too much that has actually gone well on his watch to simply be attributed to coincidence.

So it does not mean that God has blessed because if he’s a man of high moral fiber, but there’s no question that God has used him to do some real good for our country. And plus, it’s rollicking good fun to watch the other side completely, completely go up in flames.

Anytime he says something, anything, it doesn’t matter. And I mean, I would do it again just to watch not my president fiasco at UCLA. I too did not vote for Donald last time. At the time I was concerned that he and the party were moving in what felt like a pro homosexual rights direction that appears to not have materialized. So at the moment if things don’t change I will probably cast my vote for him this time. Yeah, I think at the 2016 meeting, I definitely represented the hell no, I won’t vote for that person. The person that never Trump was. Yeah. That was the popular hashtag. And I mean, for a while, that was as close to me as the hashtag blessed.

So those are like my two favorite that summer. And I would say that one of the things that surprises you about liars sometimes is that they lie in ways that you like. So I like some of the ways that he is lying more now than what I wasn’t sure he was lying about then. I think that he is making a mockery of Christians in a number of ways, even by the Christians that want to be so obviously associated with him that are getting publicity from it. And I think that that is actually going to have its own consequence. So I forget what the gentleman’s name was that you read his little, his commentary. It’s fine to say that Trump did not cause the divide, but he is making it bigger by his own way of handling it.

So I am very thankful that he’s the first president who ever went to the National March for Life and disgusted that he had to be the first one to do it. And I like Jonathan and I’m sure we would all say, but like it is fun watching the people that he is making upset. I do enjoy that in terms of as much as you can enjoy train wrecks, the kind of people who are sticking their heads out the windows and yelling and screaming are the kind of people that I would prefer to see sticking their heads out the window and yelling and screaming. So that’s totally fun. So if I vote for him in 2020, it will largely be a decision based off of wanting more fun rather than, um, wanting, like, believing what he’s doing.

So, there’s not anybody else that I’m excited about either. So, I mean, none of the, you know, as the more that the Democrats talk, whichever one is going to be put up against him is going to love abortion. You know, you can’t be. They’re they’re trying to define themselves as you can’t be in our party unless you are for abortion So that would not be an option. So my my only other option would be a conscious a conscience right in vote But because Trump has lied in a more conservative direction Can you lie in a conservative direction? I mean I guess so because of that and I agree that he’s gotten a bunch of things done and And that’s the kind of person that usually then brings somebody out from the other side who is ready to fight fire with the same kind of fire that he’s bringing.

So our president is not helping civil discourse. Our president is not helping people understand why they should do something different. The only thing that I can see that he’s really helping people understand that they should do something different is why they should not be a Democrat. But I don’t see him persuasively helping people understand why they should be pro-life. He’s just putting himself with that group. He’s not persuading people why conservative justices should be placed, though he is doing it. So I’m very thankful, very thankful for the surprises and am not never Trump-er like I was. So I will at least drop the hashtag for this go around but it’s just I you know they don’t offer you lines to write all of your qualifications before you get to check the box so I’m probably more excited about it if it was an essay question not a checkbox question okay Okay, sweet.

Other questions? He asked me where I get most of my stuff. I keep the TV on all the time on MSNBC, CNN, and then Fox. And who? Very little Fox. Yeah, yeah, most of it I listen to the enemy. And I listen to Levin, And Rush is still the king of the sarcasm and able to blast stuff.

And I read different blogs. I get tired of cross politic and that kind of stuff. I definitely got mad at Mueller quite a while ago. I’m looking to blow the thing up. And the guy is, that’s what he’s doing, and I love it. But that’s where I get most of my information. This book by Levin is really good. I wanted to buy a couple other books, but I also want, I’m doing a whole nother thing and I don’t have that much time. But the other book that I think would really be good and it’s not available right now, but it’s 100 Supreme Court cases. He was interviewed by Levin two weeks ago. He’s a constitutional scholar. He wrote a book on the 100 most important Supreme Court cases, and then there’s 16 hours of video that you get with the book that you can watch professors talk about it.

And he said that if you listen to that book, you’ll know more than the constitutional lawyers that are graduating from Harvard now. And it is really incredible to me to watch people like Dershowitz and stuff, who, if you would ask me 10 years ago, the guy was totally lost and would never come back from how far left he’d gone.

And when you see that he now has moved over to the conservative side with the Supreme Court, because all the libertarian people have just gone away. The free speech advocates, all that stuff, all those old time liberals are gone. They’re really not liberals. And an old time liberal can be a very conservative person personally. And it’s like I often use Nat Hentoff who was a village voice, which is a commie rag, used to be, it’s no longer published in the Greenwich Village in New York. Nat Hentoff was their editor. When he realized that abortion killed a baby, this is in 1963, 62, he said, I’m against abortion. You can’t, that voice is not being heard.

I am for life, I’m for that. And they hated him till he died, but he stayed true to that kind of thing. So there are people out there that will listen to you. I have a friend that I play pool with that’s an atheist. He and I argue all the time, but the points that Sean was showing, there is a God. And he now has finally admitted to me, well, yeah, my God is, there is no God. He said, I’ll give you that point, which, you know, it’s kind of interesting. So some answers specifically is some of the standard cable news shows you watch and Mark Levin’s book you really like. And you had mentioned in your talk also some Hillsdale classes that have real.

Hill’s Dale courses are excellent. There’s a guy, Victor David Hanson, who has a whole series on World War II that is really good. And he is an expert in the Peloponnesian Wars, and he’s a Stanford scholar. He’s also a farmer in Central California. He’s an interesting guy. But the Hillsdale thing, and then you get on those and then use the links that they give you to listen to other people and stuff.

YouTube stuff by these guys like you can see all of it levene’s TV shows on YouTube if you wanted so there are ways to see these people and they’re out there does anybody have like a really good podcast that you listen to that’s You know related to this discussion You know if Jubal is driving in the car something to listen to as opposed to sitting down at a desk you know, and watching, watching extra stuff, that’s, that’s hard to do. Anybody have a political Ben Shapiro? Yeah? What, what’s the name of his? The Daily Wire? Okay. In terms of audiobook, Ben Shapiro’s book, The Right Side of History, is a Jew arguing that there has to be a god of the system. So I know Jim read it and I read it. Did you read that, Jonathan? Yeah. So that was a…there’s got to be a God recognized somehow, some way from a non-Christian. That was very interesting.

Yeah. Mark Levin is a Jew also, but has Christian guests all the time. And I would say it’s in the book list in the back of your booklet, but any…almost anything by Thomas Sowell, and you can get those audiobooks also. He’s a phenomenal thinker as well. All right, good. Another question. So in light of the increasing political divide and world views that are present in our nation, what are ways that Christians can speak to people on the opposing side, what are ways that they can approach that to try to still not compromise but be effective in at least having the conversation if not maybe planting seeds or persuading people?

Is that a fair resummary? Okay. Yeah, I think that the divide should be sharper. What’s happened is finally these people have had to take their clothes off and show you who they are. I voted for Mitt Romney when he ran for president. Disgusting. I held my nose and voted for him then because I knew that he had created the model for Obamacare in Massachusetts when he was the governor of Massachusetts. He’s a perfect example of the political situation that I talked about, how crooked it is. He lives in La Jolla, California. He’s now the senator from Utah and spent his other political life being the governor of Massachusetts and stuff.

These people just move around and get voted and they have no allegiance to that place they are. They’re just looking for a place to plug in and be powerful. today on, or yesterday on MSNBC, Bloomberg was asked, well both, if Hillary becomes your running mate, both people will be from New York. He said no problem, I got a home in Colorado, I’ll just go there. You know, so they totally see everything as one world, everything they got is theirs, they have no real allegiance anywhere. And I think that needs to be more exposed, not less exposed. So, and once that all comes out, people go, it’s like I believe that the black vote could be as high as 30% for Trump this time, because they’re realizing if you’re black and in Baltimore or, you know, South Chicago, enough is enough.

50 years of democratic rule has gotten you absolutely nowhere. So give it a whirl, try some. And these people are coming out of the woodwork now talking on all these places, and it’s interesting. In trying to approach people on the other side of the divide, step one, go back to Mark Twain’s quote, hassertaining if they’re stupid, and then just walk away. But, yeah, I say a ton of chic. But assuming there are other people that disagree with me who can still be reasonable and civil, Then just start looking for the common ground. They’re coming to me, you’re a Christian, how can you possibly vote for Trump? And I’m saying, I agree with you, I have no reason to believe the man’s a Christian.

But I cannot vote for people who also encourage murder. Yeah, so I’m in a bind, who should I pick? But take the Constitution. The other side will, they’re sharing these decisions you know, gay marriage and abortion, they’re cheering that yay courts. My point I make back to them is I say, whether you like the decision they made or not, you should be very upset about how they reached the decision because they totally violated what their job is. And I said, and frankly, if someday it comes when we get a lot of conservative judges again, and they start making rulings you don’t like, you’re gonna have to keep your mouth shut because you were cheering when they broke the rules in the way you like.

You can’t start screaming because they’re breaking the rules in the way you don’t like. And so those kinds of conversations can at least make people start thinking that there’s something fundamentally broke today, whether you like the decisions that are coming out or not. And yeah, I’m not gonna convince them to, if I start with my position that, well, God says, I’m probably not going to get anywhere with them. Now, I can still declare that, but politically, I’m not going to get anywhere with that conversation. But show them that what they think is a good exercise of our government, you say, no, in fact, that was a horrible exercise of our government, not because of the outcome, but because of the process.

And that begins to give you a platform from which to discuss and say, OK, let’s get that fixed. And then, you know what, if you really believe something should be the way of the law of the land, go through the amendment process. Do it the right way. There’s a reason why they don’t do it through the amendment process, because they know there’s no way it would ever pass.

Yeah, I would echo that. I’m a card-carrying Calvinist, and I don’t. I think I’m out of the cage stage of Calvinism as it’s been dubbed. So I don’t go around looking for anything with two legs that calls itself an Arminian and want to debate it. The older I get and the more I know of the Bible and the more I grow theologically, the more settled I am in my conviction that God is sovereign overall. That necessarily includes soteriology because that’s part of the all and it includes everything else too. So I am happy to engage anybody in a conversation about that, but I feel less and less threatened that my perspective is going to be refuted.

And the more I study of history and the more I study of politics, the more settled I am on the conservative side of the aisle. And so when I am engaging somebody who is a flaming liberal, I’m not super panicked that he’s going to sway me, or I’m not also freaking out that it’s on me to try to convert him to my way of thinking. Because history and the facts speak pretty plainly for themselves. What the left is trying to do right now is upset the order of things under which our country has flourished. And we can actually go on for a very long time talking about this. But a very cold, calculated, measured explanation as to historically what has happened to enable our country to flourish is all of the persuasion that ought to be necessary, or at least is all of the material that ought to be necessary to persuade.

And from my brief experience, usually when somebody is super defensive and shrill, it’s because he’s trying to convince himself first, kind of like the angry atheist. He’s angry because he knows in his heart that God exists, but he’s railing against that and is trying to persuade others to justify also his own professed unbelief. So likewise, I’m actually, and I hope this isn’t condescending, but I’m more inclined to pity because they’re actually in large measure ignorant. Like, man, you actually don’t know how awesome it could be. So, hopefully, that then opens some channels for communication, if they know that I actually respect him as a human because the value that we share is given by God as we are commonly made in his image and likeness.

So I have not just an obligation, but a happy ability to affirm that person’s value, even if I totally disagree with them politically. And even that right there is something that many on the other side of the conversation don’t have. So I think there’s 100 different ways. But one is to go ahead and be informed and to understand how we got to where we are. That’s part of what I was trying to scratch at in my talk is a lot of chronological snobs assume that newer is better and old is antiquated and those dumb people back then believe this but look at us modern sophisticates.

So that’s not the case at all. So learn and then engage. Okay, Karen from President Trump’s reelection campaign just texted me and said we have time for just one more question or two. What are our thoughts on the idea of incrementalism and being able to make small gains in particular areas rather than all or nothing kind of things? we either get all of what we want or we’re not gonna be satisfied or happy with that particular movement. Is that a good summary?

I am happy with contented discontentment or discontented contentment or finding lots of things to be thankful for while not being finished. So usually you don’t go from one to nine immediately. You go from one to two and three to four. And, you know, while being able to have nine as the end goal, not giving up, you know, once, not declaring victory in our aviator sunglasses when we got from one into one and three quarters, we win. And certainly not with the abortion as an example. There’s a… I would say there are no abortions of any kind is what we’re going for. But whatever kind of laws, I’m happy to recognize those as any kind of recovery and in other ways you know is fine I would say to make compromises when we can with our neighbors and certainly if we can move in a good direction I’m fine with trajectory. Yeah I would agree I’m provided in the political discourse that the agreement isn’t okay I’ll give you two inches just don’t come back and ask for three.

I’m especially in case of something like abortion, the end game is no abortions. But it doesn’t make sense to me those that have passed up on a chance for some compromise legislation, because it’s an all or nothing game to them. That’s a whole lot of babies dying in the meantime. Take what we can get and then keep fighting for the rest. So politically, I think incrementalism is the only Reasonable path forward provided again that doesn’t mean that you’re settling for You know half half of what the goal is as long as you can come back and continue the conversation the next day The way the government set up it’s a checks and balance. So you always have to make a deal I think that’s one of the main reasons why Trump’s been successful He wants to make a deal somehow so you find a way to get a little bit of what you want or get a lot to trade for something else and And it’s always been that way.

I’ll vote for your thing if you’ll vote for mine. That kind of stuff happens, so one step at a time. We had a big discussion about whether to include Art of the Deal in the book list in the back. It’s going to be $500 million. And then they’re like, well, we can’t pay that. It’s actually only $100 million. Oh, good.

So trying to get into the politics game without actually soiling your pants in the game and compromising your soul, but still then getting involved, how, what would be the process for making those steps? I don’t know what the next steps would be to get involved in politics, but while I think I understand what you’re getting at, I’m also excited to say that your question is kind of moot, because there actually are politicians who haven’t sold their soul, and there are politicians who are faithful to their constituents and to the Lord at the same time where God has called them. The sad thing is that they’re very, very, very few.

So I do think, to my knowledge, Ben Sasse is not a sellout. He’s in Nebraska, and as a senator, and sort of backed into politics, because he was a faithful Christian who was capable and a leader in a variety of contexts. And then it was the old, if you see it, you’re called to it kind of thing, and has, by his faithfulness, sort of elevated in influence, and his reputation has grown too. But because he kind of backed into it, he has also sort of been completely fine with being out of it, too. So I would say that being the right kind of person and being open-handed is necessary. There’s a real sense in which, and I don’t mean this glibly, if you are called to it, just be faithful and just watch what happens.

I don’t think that there’s a lot of literature on it because I think most Christians don’t care. So Ben Sasse is a precious rare example of, you know, so reading his books would be interesting for somebody who wanted to see somebody trying to do something and be a clear Christian about But I sadly think we, even as a church, we’re largely at the stage of trying to get people to realize that it is even okay. It doesn’t have to be a guilty pleasure, you’re watching CNN under the table.

But to learn how to process that and think about it and that Jesus is not upset, that don’t have your politics study Bible to write in the margin which senator goes with what verse or however that would look but we’re at a stage where we we don’t have lots of Christian policies because we don’t even have anybody who wants to be a Christian politician overall so there’s a lot of work to get back there and see finding people examples of people who are doing that And yeah, I’d say finding even local examples, you know, and asking them how they got into it and what they would recommend. Yeah, and what we really do need today is statesmen, not politicians.

You know, I think there’s a difference between the two. Read a biography like in the life of Wilberforce, for example. That was an honorable man who was standing alone for years and years and years fighting slavery. And yet through his statesmanship and his logic and his compelling arguments, he slowly but surely won hearts and minds over. All things can be a function of God. Today, sadly, Dave is old enough to probably concur with this. There was a time when the major political parties had similar outcomes in mind. At least, you know, they’re trying to do the, they had similar shared values. They were just arguing about the best way to accomplish those things.

Sadly, today, we don’t typically have a lot of shared values. And so then you got the double problem of I’ve not only got to get the guy to change his values, and then let’s agree on how to go solve the value problem. So that’s a real tough nut to crack today. But I would still say, you know, anybody that feels so inclined should dive in. Just know that it’s going to be a tough slog.

If you’re a solid believer, a person of integrity, you know, I think you can keep from letting this, you know, the system chew you up. But there’s nothing saying that that has to happen. I think go into the process with just as much willingness to go in with the same willingness to get out. You know at the point you realize I’ve gone in I’ve done what I can do get out. It’s when those politicians get in there and they say this is my livelihood. This is what I do. You know then it’s all about canvassing, getting votes, raising money.

You know making deals just so that you can and check a box and say I made a law. I mean, it just takes a person of integrity that gets in there and says I’m very focused on what needs to be done and I’ll take the heat. And at some point, if it’s clear, nothing’s gonna budge then say, okay, this is not my life. I can get out and go do something else. Are we still attending the city council meetings and are we having any impact? We have not been officially attending city council meetings like we were for that year where we were sending a rotation of guys.

Jonathan regularly goes to things that the mayor is at, and so, Jonathan is godly hobnobbing. I think that’s a fruit of the spirit. And the mayor recognizes him. So I mean, how can that not be good later when we have a pothole that we need to have our church services in. They can fix it. But yeah, we have in terms of effectiveness, I think we’ll find that out when we have our first wetlands issue and we need to get it rezoned and we’ll find out how effective our faces have been. Father, we are grateful that you have not left us in the dark or to our own devices to figure all of this out. And we do pity those who cast off your word and try to muddle through life without it.

We don’t want to take for granted what you have said. And we also don’t want to take for granted that our, many of our ancestors have taken for granted the truths of your word. And really in a good way, they operate with that as their starting point. So help us to love it more. us to love our neighbors more actively and because they bear your image and likeness. And may our faithfulness be good for our community, both locally as well as nationally. And we know that you’ll be honored in this and we make these requests in Christ’s name. Amen.